The next guest on today’s edition of Sunday Morning With Trevor Phillips is the health secretary, Victoria Atkins.

The program started with the new definition of extremism that is set to be unveiled this week.

Some organisations are already defined as extremist and therefore do not receive funding from the government or engagement with them, so we started by asking if the list could be expanded.

Ms Atkins says this new definition is “a continuation of what the prime minister said a week ago on the steps of Downing Street.

She says: “There are some people, sadly, who hold views that are contrary to the values that we hold as a country, and we should not allow those views to percolate through society or, indeed, allow them to try and change the way we as a society conduct our democracy.”

Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove is “setting out his ideas as to what we should do to tackle some of these very, very extreme views that we are sadly seeing expressed around our streets”.

She points to pro-Palestine activists spray-painting and slashing a painting of Lord Balfour at the University of Cambridge

Trevor challenges Ms Atkins about potentially criminalising what people say rather than what they do, and she insists there is a “long-standing convention” of “proscription for those groups that meet the very, very strict criteria”.

But she says there needs to be a “conversation” about groups that don’t quite meet that definition.